World Cup 2026 & Stadium Economics | Dan Hunt on FC Dallas and Long-Term Sports Investing

I've been working on World Cup 26 for 8 years of my life. Obviously, I wanted to grow soccer for FC Dallas. I wanted to produce the next Messi.

Dan Hunt is a longtime leader in American soccer and co-owner of FC Dallas, now serving as a driving force behind bringing World Cup 26 to North Texas. For nearly a decade, he's focused on growing the game and creating lasting economic impact, carrying forward a legacy shaped by his father, Lamar Hunt, a pioneer of modern American sports.

What's your love affair with soccer?

Because of my brother Clark playing. The most beautiful game.

Do you worry about this intersection and merging of sports and gambling?

We have to worry about it, right? It's the integrity of the game. And it hurts the fandom. One word to describe our culture, it's family. My brother Clark, unbelievable ability to negotiate and manage what those expenses look like. My father's God-given ability was attention to detail. My mother had the ability to make you feel like the most special person. Everything would drown out.

What is your God-given talent?

The die trying. Whether I win or lose, but I get back up off the mat and I'm ready to go again.

Taylor Swift. What a gold mine, right?

I mean, she's been good for the NFL, ain't she?

Yeah, it's been amazing with her.

I mean, our female fan base is more than our male fans.

Oh my goodness.

At the Chiefs. And if you look at it, I mean, I haven't studied the list exactly, but I believe we're the only NFL franchise in the top 5 in every country that the NFL measures. Wow.

Is that measured through like merchandise, through viewership?

It's really just overarching fan interest. I don't even know how the NFL calculates it, but they did a study and I think we were the only one in the top 5. We were number 1 in a bunch of countries. So it's just the strength of that brand.

So I don't want to bury the lead too much, so I'd rather just like get straight into like soccer and FC Dallas. From a perception on the outside, it looks like Clark is— your brother Clark is heavy NFL and you're heavy for soccer. Has that always been the case, or what's your love affair with soccer?

Yeah, well, both footballs, right? And You know, he is— he wasn't one of the founding fathers of Major League Soccer, but he was there early. Our dad Lamar was one of the founding fathers, just like he was founding father of the AFL, which was the Dallas Texans, and then obviously the Chicago Bulls. He was one of the founding fathers of that franchise and World Championship Tennis too. So, so many things. Clark was a great soccer player, great college soccer player. So his affinity for the game is incredibly high. But the Chiefs is that's a full-time job. And he spends the bulk of his time on it. But he and I talk probably no less than 5 times a day, either via text, via email, or on the phone, because there are just so many decisions that have to be made across our organizations. And it's so fun to get to work with your best friend, to get to do pickup and make those phone calls. And, you know, a lot of that, what would mom and dad do? We have those conversations a lot because they were two incredible barometers. But you're right, for him, It's— I would argue his day is probably 80-something percent Chiefs. And for me, I'm sort of 80-something, 90% FC Dallas. There I office every single day, and it's the last job I got to do with my dad while he was still alive, building that stadium. And so it really is my happy place. I get to think about him every single day.

In your brain, how much is sports and how much is like business, or is it all just intertwined?

You know what? It really is intertwined. Um, you know, I get asked about this part of it, which I don't go out to a lot of practices. Um, I do spend a lot of time with our technical staff, um, which is the equivalent of a general manager in football or basketball. I leave that to the professionals, right? I'm there to make the dollars and cents try to work and put an eye test to things. But really I'm responsible for running the business. I mean, we got to worry about media, we got to worry about TV ratings, we have to worry about sponsorship, ticket sales. And obviously the big two right now for us are redoing Toyota Stadium and our new stadium in Mansfield for our third division team. So two really big stadium projects. One is $200 million, the other one's $87 million. And then, you know, in the future with the Chiefs, we're going to be thinking about what we're going to do there. Um, you know, Arrowhead is so iconic and we have such a love affair with that stadium, um, but it's been there since '72 and we've been incredibly thoughtful. And I, you know, these are always fun meetings get to talk with people and have these opportunities, it takes me back to one of my dad's big life lessons. Take care of your stadium and it will take care of you. It's a much broader principle, right, in life, right? It's take care of your things, take care of the people that you love, and good things will happen. Well, that's what he meant by it. And we have continued to reinvest in our stadiums. I mean, we're on our third iteration of, you know, reinvesting really at Toyota Stadium. We're on another— we have multiple iterations at Arrowhead of constant reinvesting, but we're reinvesting every single year in these properties. If you do that, the longevity of them is amazing. But it's going to be an interesting crossroads coming up for us.

I'm glad we're going into this so early in this conversation because with the stadiums, I know that's part of your ethos is like the stadium, the culture, the sports business all ties in together. But you being a Dallas resident, I'm sure there's so many lessons to be learned from like AT&T development. And like, because if you remember, in my opinion, should have been at Fair Park and what kind of economic lift that would have had all of Fair Park and Dallas in general. And instead Arlington, it's a great stadium, it's beautiful, but I mean, I'm sure there's so many lessons there for, for not just you but all of NFL.

I will talk about my dad a lot. Again, he was the barometer and my mother was an exceptional barometer and an unbelievable person. Person who I held in the highest regard. But he loved Fair Park. He loved the Cotton Bowl. I mean, he saw 56 consecutive Cotton Bowls, right? So that, that's a streak. He would fly home from Christmas vacation so he could go to the Cotton Bowl by himself when we all revolted as a family and decided to stay on vacation. So he loved that area. It would have been so great for Dallas, but Arlington stepped up and was willing to do the deal, and that stadium is one of the most amazing economic drivers of any sports venue in the world. And so Arlington wisely made those decisions, and it's worked out. I mean, they do say that even though those events happen in Arlington, or we have stuff that happens in Frisco at Toyota Stadium, Dallas proper still receives some version of 65%. Of those economics from hotel nights and restaurants. That's a statistic that I've heard over time, that Dallas is still the largest, you know, benefit of any of those municipalities involved. But these stadiums are big economic drivers. Obviously what the Rangers have done with their stadium. Now you have the Medal of Honor Museum out in Arlington. It is extraordinary.

I was just there last week.

I was there 2 weeks ago or maybe 3 weeks ago. I just— it takes your breath away. And what a community asset for all of us to have.

Can I pause for one second? Because do you know the youngest Medal of Honor, what the age is? I do. You guys, can you take a guess?

Oh, I'd say 18.

11. Oh my goodness.

A drummer during the Civil War.

Yeah.

And I had forgotten this. But known that the drummers were the signal callers. So their beat, their rhythm, and how loud it was, was directing which way the armies were going. Oh, wow. And so he was 11. There's only one woman to be a Medal of Honor winner, which they— in Civil War, and they stripped her of her medal because she wanted women's rights and voting rights. And Jimmy Carter was the president who reinstated it.

There you go. Yeah. Not that any of us have anything to do with that place, but other than it's amazing and everybody should go. But if you want to be humbled and feel insignificant. Yes. You go to that museum.

You start with that movie. That is 10 minutes of your life. That's really special to understand what true sacrifice is. Yeah, it's great. But you talk about Arlington, you have all those things and then you have the hotels that are going up, which are sensational. And they got the recipe right for economic development and Look, I'm incredibly hopeful for Dallas. I am so proud to be from Dallas. And this is a global city. We've talked a lot about World Cup '26. I've talked a lot about it nonstop, and I'm sure we'll visit about it today. But it was kind of our global announcement that Dallas is truly a global city, getting a semifinal in 9 games, an international broadcast center, and we're going to get a bunch of visiting national teams that are going to pick this area. We will receive the largest economic benefit of any community in the North American bid for World Cup. And look, I pushed incredibly hard to have the final here. I thought we deserved it. We put forth an unbelievable bid. Monica Paul, who leads our whole effort, and she's the head of Dallas Sports Commission, she is an asset that this community— I can't say enough nice things about her. She's a big reason why we get all the major sporting events here, more so than any other city. And also the Texas Special Event, the trust fund that we have, that provides economic incentives to us. It has no minimum and it has no maximum, so it's based on how many tax dollars we can drive, and that really gives us a benefit to go get these big, big events.

Thinking about your, your father, I, I certainly— I think anybody and everyone is familiar with the Hunt family and the Kansas City Chiefs. I didn't know about his relationship with soccer. I understand that he and your mother Norma went to a soccer game and fell in love with it.. And just reading about his involvement, he supported the North American Soccer League. He founded the Dallas Tornado. He became one of Major League Soccer's original investors. He owned the Dallas Burn, which later became FC Dallas, financed soccer-specific stadiums. I mean, I could go down 10 more bullet points, and I'm trying to imagine what it would be like growing up under his influence. You know, the NFL refused his expansion bid, and so he goes out and creates a rival league. That says a lot about, about his personality and his character. So is that passion for soccer something that transferred from your mother and your father to you?

Yeah, you know, he founded the AFL as a 26-year-old. I just had no idea. Just think about it. He had a window in '66 and '67 where he presided over the NFL-AFL merger, named the Super Bowl, invested in the Chicago Bulls, um, invested in the Dallas Tornado and created them, um, and created World Championship Tennis. Just think about— just think about that. So about when he was 34 and 35 years old, he was busy, um, and really changed the sports landscape forever in this country. Yeah, his first soccer match was visiting my mother in Ireland. He went to a Shamrock Rovers UCD match. She was a Rotary scholar, at the University College Dublin, and he went over and visited. That was first match. And, you know, a lot of people invest in sports for ego or for financial gain. They hope sports business is a tough business. He invested because he fell in love with the game. He was not a traditional soccer guy. He was football and he was baseball. He would tell you he played both at SMU and he played both poorly. He would tell you, although he was a pretty good athlete. But he went over there, saw the passion of the fans. And unlike any other sport, for the most part, American football, you can do this. Baseball is hard. Basketball is hard. A mom and a dad and a brother and sister can all sit around and kick a soccer ball. And he thought it was a great game for family. He sees the '66 World Cup final and, and America's immediately ready for professional soccer in '67. He was about 40 years early, but that was his gift to soccer and really grow the game. I fell in love with soccer somewhat because of their passion, but because of my brother Clark playing. Went to his high school soccer games. I watched him play at SMU, and then I got to get my first World Cup in 1986 in Mexico. And I've been to every World Cup since then. And that passion those fans have for it, it's— it is the most beautiful game.

So that led you to get involved. It was FC Dallas. Was it a continuous thing? It was owned by the family, or tell me about the— how it evolved.

I laugh. Because in 2001, I had been in New York actually. I was working for a technology firm and I was there during 9/11 and actually office right down by the towers. So, September 11th is always a tough day. I had come back from New York and I was working in the family office and it was my very first day on the job. We were in Kansas City in the chief's offices. It was Clark, my brother, John Wagner, head of our sports company, my dad, myself. We were sitting there on the couch and MLS folded on my very first day on the job in November of 2001, went out of business. So Clark looks over at me on the couch and goes, congratulations, you've been hired and fired on the same day. It's a super exclusive club. It's not a club you want to be in. It is a life lesson. But our dad Lamar, true to form, rallied Phil Anschutz and Robert Kraft. I mean, literally, the attorneys were headed to the federal courthouse Monday morning to file bankruptcy in MLS and set back U.S. soccer between 10 and 20 years. There would have been a first division league that would have sprung up. I know that because the game is a global game with great passion and interest. But it would have— we would have set U.S. soccer back 10 to 20 years on the men's side. But he rallied them. The three of them took 10 teams and We sat around a table that was about half the size of this table we are right now, looking at each other going, what are we going to do? But the perseverance, the leadership of those three businessmen and their teams, the people around them really pushed MLS forward. Don Garber was the right commissioner at the right time, right? He just had the right personality to kind of help push us forward. So it's been an interesting journey in soccer, but We have more than arrived and the Apple deal helps validate that.

Where does the World Cup deal start? Does it start with, you know, a couple of friends who enjoy soccer, having a cup of coffee, having a beer and be like, you know, be cool if I didn't have to travel to Spain to go watch the World Cup, if I could just watch it in my own backyard. What's that first phone call? What's that first meeting? What's that process look like to actually secure that deal?

Yeah, well, that first meeting was almost 8 years to the day for me. I've been working on World Cup '26 for 8 years of my life, and it has been the most rewarding. It's actually the hardest work I've ever had to put in because I do have a day job and apparently I have a night job, and most importantly, I have 2 little girls. And, but it is my great pleasure to get to do this and represent our community, bring the economic impact to the city. You know, there had been a failed.

Bid.

In 2018 and 2022, 2018 being Russia and '22 being Qatar. We lost the— the U.S. had lost the bid. And so we went with a joint bid between Mexico, U.S., and Canada for this round and were successful in it. But, you know, my brother Clark had worked on those bids and Jim Graham, the famous Jim Graham, who was one of the owners of the Dallas Sidekicks and my dad's co-chair in World Cup '94. And they were the perfect co-chairs for each other. My dad was so meticulous and everything, and Jim was literally the life of the party. And I think the groundwork they laid in '94 made it so easy for 2026 for the World Cup to be here. But you're, you know, as you talk about this and think about it, it's literally been almost to the day 8 years of fighting for this. And So many meetings and so much effort. And you know what? The effort has already started for Women's World Cup 2031. My stated goal was to get the final on the men's side in '26, and it didn't happen. We got a semifinal and 9 total games. My stated goal is to have the women's final, um, here. Um, we are a global market, global city, um, and we do things bigger and better in Texas.

So in 2010, I used to live in, uh, Doha, Qatar. Okay. Every single building in downtown Doha had the giant World Cup Qatar. I forgot what year they were going for it, but they obviously made this giant push and it was successful. They got it in '22 controversially, but from an effort of like, hey, we want this. Like I said, every single building, like imagine Dallas with giant murals of World Cup for Dallas. I didn't necessarily see that. I just— it just— it was almost like— and maybe it's just because we have so much going on, it was just like, oh cool, we won the World Cup. And I, and I don't want to demean your efforts at all, but, but from the Qatar side, it's obvious the efforts they did because it was loud. The efforts you do here for, for Dallas, obviously those efforts were also loud, just for a different audience. Like, what, what What did it take? I know hard work, but what does that mean?

Yeah, I mean, there are so many meetings that take place, right? I mean, you go through the initial phase of city selection, and pretty obvious that Dallas was going to be selected, um, given AT&T Stadium and the economics there. And also, we have such a rich soccer history dating all the way back to the Dallas Tornado. This, from a grassroots soccer market, is one of the richest. People so often mistake They think Dallas has more talent than any other market or a lot of the other markets in the United States. We have a lot of talent, but the youth system is so robust and the competitive games that you get in this market, which all harkens back to the Dallas Tornado, those players that played there and those coaches stayed in market, started youth clubs, coached at high schools. Some of them are still somewhat active, although they're on the older side of things. That's what has made this market so unique. And then the women's team with the ties to the Sting Soccer Club back that was a big part of that early movement. And so many youth national team players come out of Dallas, so many boys and girls sides, so many national team players. So this is a rich history. So telling the soccer story was easy, right? And the Dallas Cup, let's not forget about that. I had the great pleasure of playing in that twice. That is truly a global soccer tournament that everybody knows about. So you say Dallas is one of the best stadiums for economics. Dallas has a rich soccer history, already had the World Cup in '94, already had the International Broadcast Center. And then I think the effort, right, the credibility of— you have true soccer people like myself in the bid here in Dallas. I mean, people know that, you know, I always use the adage, you know, you may not be the smartest, but if you die trying, that goes a long way in life. And they saw the effort that we put in and the integrity. I mean, most markets fail to understand that the integrity of the match inside the white lines is what FIFA really cares about, right? They care about the money, but they care about what goes on inside the white lines. And we know what it takes to make sure we put forth those best events and put, you know, bring the game to life and raise that level. So, you know, you have countless meetings, you're bringing politicians together, you're unifying cities.

Right?

That's the biggest, frankly, challenge, right? Dallas's name is on this bid, as it should be. The stadium is in Arlington. Plano is a major player in this. Frisco is a major player. Fort Worth is a major player in this. So how do we tie these markets together? And, and the beauty of it, honestly, is that the excitement and energy around it— if you go back and look at all these council votes for different things, they were effectively unanimous, um, because everybody understands the, the value of this. And it's not just the economic value It's the great— this is the greatest commercial that our market can have in the world. This is, this is it. This is how you wind up having businesses move here. This is how you have people move here. You create jobs and you create this massive economic impact.

One thing you just said that I'm a big fan of is the you can't fail if you don't quit, you know. So like, I, you know, I don't feel like I fail at anything because I never quit. But also I feel like if I don't address this, I'll get in trouble. SMU soccer, ACC champions.

All right. I know we were so excited.

I mean, but if I didn't mention that, somebody would be like, you talk about SMU all the time.

What the hell?

Right.

So that's a— it's a huge moment for SMU. But how about just in general being part of the ACC, right? I mean, this has been an amazing run. The football team last year, the football team is doing great. Basketball team did really well. Solid recruiting class.

Were you at the Miami game?

I was not at the Miami game.

You weren't on the field?

Yeah, no, I have found that at my age, carrying goalposts off the field is not, not a great idea.

I think that would have been a great commercial for something.

Yeah, it would have been. I'm sure I would have been fined by somebody for it. But, you know, what an asset for this community. I'm so excited for SMU. But then on the soccer side, obviously my nephew was just there playing last year. It was his senior year. He's off in New York working now, but he sent us the message. Clark and I were together at the Chiefs game in Denver and it popped up on our phone from Noble telling us that the men's team had won. And then I heard from a bunch of people, but this has been an unbelievable win for a fabulous institution like SMU.

Yeah, I will say the, the football game against Miami, you know, there's a lot of politics that go into sports about like, oh, we have a sold-out stadium. I've been going to the— for 2 years and it's never been sold out. It may have been sold out, but attended-wise, but that was the best attended game I've seen in 2 years. The Miami game to the very, very end. Yeah.

Look, I give Dr. Turner a lot of credit there and this the direction of the university and this is an amazing institution and something we're all so proud of. Obviously, my dad went there, Clark went there, my sister Sharon went there. I was a graduate. So it's, it's something, you know, all of Clark's kids, It is truly a family tradition.

Well, they have an MBA program. You can get an executive MBA from there.

I— yeah, I know. And I would actually be fearful of going back to school. I've gotten rooted in some bad habits, apparently.

You'll be fine. I think they would welcome you.

So you talked about the, the impact of the World Cup is not simply the dollars, but, but the appearance of Dallas on a global, on a world scale that drives additional businesses here. But I'm sure you've come up with an estimate of what the economic impact, the immediate economic impact is. Obviously restaurants, hotels benefit, but what's the broader impact financially?

Yeah, they, all the studies keep saying about $2 billion of economic impact, and that's split, you know, between 9 games, International Broadcast Center at Kay Bailey Hutchison Center downtown, And then the base camps. And so big thing, one of the biggest things that's happening next month in December is that the World Cup draw is going to happen on December 5th. So we will know who is playing in our region. Obviously, we're in the South region and the national teams will start to pick. And Toyota Stadium and Soccer Center, home of FC Dallas, is one of the premier venues. So hopefully we're going to wind up with the top 4 or 5 national team picking there. U.S. is in California. Mexico is in Mexico, Canada is in Canada for this bid for the national teams. But hopefully we get a global powerhouse that picks, you know, this market, picks our stadium, but also Mansfield, other venues that we have. SMU is going to be involved in this and so is the Cotton Bowl, which is great. Their matchday venue training center. So if you're not in market, you fly in and you train at either SMU or the Cotton Bowl before your match the next day.

Is that why they converted to grass?

It may have had something to do with it there too. And I mean, we are traditionalists. We love grass fields.

The World Cup is, is grass.

Yeah, it is. It's all grass. And yeah, so it's going to be great for this whole area, for this whole city. I mean, I, I kid UT fans all the time about this, but they haven't seen orange till they see the Dutch fans. And it is a bright orange. And so, you know, hopefully, you know, you wind up with them in a market here too, or one of our our base camps in Fort Worth. Obviously, TCU is an opportunity. Look, my big sales point on the Metroplex was this: Dallas is a global business hub. You know, it is truly an economic driver. There's no denying that. But our bid is the most unique because the cultural authenticity of Fort Worth, and then all the surrounding cities have their own unique feel and sort of flavors to them. I said there will be no more unique bid in the entire World Cup package than the Metroplex. There are so many great things to experience. And then lastly, if you think about it, Houston has 6 games, we have 9, and Kansas City has 6. My brother Clark is chairman of the World Cup bid in Kansas City. They're going to be playing at Arrowhead, our stadium there. You have a region with 21 games, so people can stay in Austin, stay in San Antonio, you know, stay in Oklahoma City, Tulsa, all these markets, and sample this, you know, this whole area and see a ton of matches. And it's going to be great for all of us.

We talked a lot about the economic impact of sports, World Cup, just sports in general. I'd like to get your opinion just because— and this is all anecdotal. I'm not an expert on this, but from what I understand, like, because people were talking about having a casino in Dallas and how it wouldn't have the economic impact because casinos naturally want people to stay inward. Whereas sports, it feels like it's outward. You know where I'm going with that? Yeah. As far as like, because the whole point of a casino is keep everybody inside. But with sports, it's like you affect the stadium and everybody around it. It feels like it has like a dispersing effect.

Yeah. Look, I mean, the gambling thing is a complicated issue, right? Especially in Texas and the current politics of everything. You know, I know there's a real push to bring not just sports betting, but actually land-based casino gambling. And then there's a great opposition to it. We're in a unique situation, I think, in Texas, given the energy boom that still continues on even at these commodity prices. We run at a pretty healthy surplus, I have a feeling. And so you ask how much revenue will, or tax revenue will land-based casinos bring? And it's a real number. I've heard estimates in the $3 billion range. It could be more or less. I'm not expert in that space. But you're right, casinos want to keep people in their ecosystem. They want them spending dollars there, and that's what drives them, where sports teams really activate areas around businesses, restaurants. But it doesn't mean land-based casinos can't do that too. So I think this is a really interesting time in Texas from a business standpoint because we're still booming. And, you know, one of the beauties of Dallas, and no secret, is there's not just one industry that we rely on. That's usually why we're the last one in a big recession and the first one out is because we don't have our hands tied. I mean, when you see these energy booms and busts, you see what happens to these cities or in the biotech space or you pick it. I mean, we've seen it. There's countless stories of this. Dallas is uniquely hedged. Compared to a lot of communities in the United States. But yeah, it's a really interesting time. Will it happen one day? I believe that one day there'll be land-based casinos there. We were seeing what's happening up in Oklahoma, obviously Windstar, which is amazing. You got Choctaw up there. Those are big economic drivers and they're away from population centers and they've been incredibly successful. So, It, like all things, it'll happen one day. It just, we're on our own pace here.

Your family owns two major league sports franchises. And I wonder how you feel about what we're seeing as intersection of gambling, talking about the casinos and sports. We've had baseball now with players that were rigging balls and strikes to create betting outcomes. We've had basketball coaches in the NBA that were involved in a gambling scandal.. And we now, speaking of Dallas, and, you know, the Mavericks owned by a casino gaming company or family that want to relocate and have a casino and with the Mavericks as part of that. Do you worry about this intersection and merging of sports and gambling?

Well, we have to worry about it, right? It's the integrity of the game. Because I go back to what I said earlier about the integrity of what happens inside the white lines and what FIFA care so much about. Clearly there is an issue that exists, right? You mentioned the baseball players and the basketball players. Now, I'm afraid it's fairly pervasive. I think we're only seeing the beginning, but that's my opinion. I literally don't know anything else, but I don't think these are just one-offs, and that can really hurt the fans' affinity for the game. And one of the big drivers of that is prop bets. Um, you know, they talk about limiting those within sports, um, that leads to these yellow cards in soccer and red cards in soccer and, you know, you know, bad pitches and all these things that, that we're, we're seeing. If you can sort of limit those, I think you can limit some of those outcomes. Um, in Turkey, in the soccer league, I don't know if you saw this, but, you know, it was some crazy number of matches bet on by officials. I think it was, I don't know, 14,000, 15,000 matches. And they had players betting on maybe over 1,000. Everything was in the thousands of matches bet on between officials and players.

And it wasn't a one-off.

No, it was not. It was not a one-off. And that has really shaken that game to its core. Right. And so I don't think we're going to see an extreme version like that in the American sports. But it does exist. And, you know, it just, it just takes people's faith away from the game and it hurts the fandom. Right. I use this as one of my litmus tests in life. My father accepted his induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1972 on behalf of the football fans of America. The fans make the game. He knew it better than anybody. And if you, you know, disenfranchise those fans or hurt their faith or belief in what's going on, you're only hurting the sport.

You talk about your father a lot and the love of him, the respect of him. Do you ever have kind of like a Caesar wept, Alexander the Great moment where, you know, he's accomplished so much, that creating the AFL at 26, and, you know, there's always that, that father-son trying to outpace the father, whatever. But do you ever have that moment where it's like, I will never live up to the expectations, or the outcome.

Of previous— your father? Yeah, I never will. I recognize that. I think Clark would tell you he recognizes even with tremendous success, my father was an extraordinary creator and builder in those things. And you just feel so fortunate. And he was a better person than he was innovator in sports. I mean, he was an amazing human being. And I always defer back to my mother, too, who was just an extraordinary human being at the highest level. And she actually probably loved sports more than my dad. And that's why they were the perfect fit. I get asked all the time, well, when did you know your dad was a big deal? And, you know, you'd always hear, oh, he did this, he did that, he named the Super Bowl. And those are all, you know, you take it in and you're like, this is incredible. Yes, he's a big deal. But Around 2002, he won the National Medal of Honor from soccer, from U.S. Soccer, and they were honoring Pelé at the same event. We were in Washington, D.C., and we started off at a cocktail reception before, and Prince Rainier was— sorry, not Prince Rainier, Prince Albert was there, and Prince Albert was racing over and saying hi to my dad. I was like, well, that's pretty cool. Prince Albert's racing over to say hi. But then Pelé was being honored at this dinner, and my dad got up and spoke and, and, you know, received his award. And he addressed Pelé by his full name. And I look over, I see a gigantic smile on Pelé's face. I mean, just— I was like, wow, that, that's pretty cool. And I was like, you know, and then Pelé gets up and he does his speech, and then he addresses my father. And I was like, oh my gosh. I mean, I was like— I mean, I was, you know, starting— how old were you at the time? Uh, so I would have been, you 26, 25, about to be 26. And he's probably your hero. Yeah, Pelé. I mean, Pelé— I don't— it's Michael Jordan, it's Pelé, it's you, you pick it. And I, I was like, wow. I was like, holy cow, this is extraordinary. The event ends, we're talking to my dad, and I look up and I hear somebody yelling, Lamar, Lamar! And it's Pelé running across the room and basically jumping into my dad's arms. I was like, You're cool. I was like, you're a big deal. You know, for me, that was one of the most aha moments because you're talking about one of the greatest of all time. Doesn't matter what sport it is and what he globally meant. And he is racing to give my dad a hug. And it dates back to those NASL days. And I was like, wow, this is— it didn't validate anything I already knew. But it was one of those cool father-son moments. And then I'll tell one other story. Owning the Chicago Bulls from the beginning, my parents never met Michael Jordan. And my dad's logic behind it was, Michael keeps winning championships without meeting me, and I don't want to screw that up. And my dad unfortunately passed away before he ever met Michael Jordan. But what that really says is that humble nature. He didn't need to go meet Michael Jordan. He could have done any— he could have, you know, I'm sure Michael would have been happy to go have dinner with him. But he understood that, you know, the game is bigger than just the individuals. And he understood that, you know, people's time is valuable. He just didn't want to impose on anybody. And there's so many stories like that about my mom and dad.

I think so many people, like, lose sight of that. Like doing this podcast with Lane, talking to amazing people like yourself. Being at SMU and just meeting people naturally. People— everybody's a celebrity to somebody else. And whether that celebrity be like the Taylor Swifts of the world or just, you know, your favorite teacher in class, there's always some sort of celebrityism. But at the end of the day, we're all humans and we just want to have a good conversation. One of my favorite moments— and I mean, I don't know if I've shared this story on the podcast before, but I think you'll get a kick out of it. When I lived in Doha, um, this is 15, 16 years ago, the only thing fun to do was go to the nice hotel and have your coffee, have your latte, have your happy hour. Well, I was there one day, and I'm probably dressed exactly what I'm dressed now, and I see this guy walk by and he's got a jumpsuit on. I'm like, what an idiot. Come on, this is a nice place. Classed up, dude. These British dudes, what are you doing? And then I see another one same outfit. I'm like, then I'm sort of scratching my head. Then I see a third one. I'm like, I think I've seen him on a video game. So I go up to these guys and they're like, I'm— excuse me, what are y'all? Oh, Manchester United Football Club. And I'm like— and I said the most humbling thing you could say to those guys: I've heard of you. These are the most famous people on the planet, and here they've got this American Texan guy going Oh, like David Beckham. And they're like, well, they said the F-word. Yeah, all good jazz. But, but the lesson I learned there was we had a good, a pleasant 15, 20-minute conversation. If I would have done the typical, oh my God, can I get a picture? It would have been a 30-second exchange. Have a great day. But because I was just like, you know, talking to like Lane or yourself or anybody here, you actually had a human connection. And I think so many people lose sight of that. Because we have these parasocial relationships on social media. You've got this fandom on TV. People make out what they want you to be versus what you are. And I don't know where I'm going.

With that other than sharing that story. But it's valid though, right? They— the turnoff is, may I have your autograph or take a photo? I have almost never asked for anything from any athlete like that or an entertainer. I'd rather have a conversation. It's more meaningful in time. They are human beings and a lot of them are really special people. And unfortunately, a lot of people don't treat them with the respect they deserve. And you miss out on really cool opportunities actually getting to know somebody by doing that. And the memories you take away from actually getting to know a person are a whole lot more valuable than that autograph or picture.

What's funny, and this is timely because I just met a gentleman last night. Do you know— are you into hockey at all?

Oh, yeah.

Belfour? Oh, yeah. So I met him last night. No clue who he is. We're just chatting up at an event, and now he's got a bourbon company. So I'm all about, oh, that's cool, you're in hockey, but let's talk about business. And then another person came up and he was just like— he did one of those double takes, like, oh my God. And it was the most, for me, awkward moment ever because you had a guy who was just talking to another guy and then you saw a guy instantly have some sort of defense mechanism because, you know, like, now I've got a guy who's a fan versus just a genuine conversation.

He's a great person. He, he was— he is a great person. A lot of fun to hang out with, too.

I haven't done that yet, but, uh, we were, you know, one of these days we'll get there.

When you research your father, his accomplishments are extraordinary and obvious, but in reading about your mother, she was considered a woman of great grace and she went to every Super Bowl for how many years?

Oh, she went to the first 57.

First 57.

Just the first 57? Only woman to see the first 57.

Yeah.

There's a group of about 3 or 4 guys still alive that have seen them all. And I tell you, getting her to the last one was really— her health was in serious decline. Getting her to that 57th where we won out in Scottsdale or Glendale in Arizona, that was a big lift. And it was really a special memory that I had with her. We flew out after, she and I did. My siblings stayed for the big party we had. And I was like, well, someday I'm going to get to to stay for a Super Bowl party after winning one. But it was my great pleasure. One of the coolest things about that was we were— she was, she was really not feeling well. Landing gear comes out and she wakes up and looks at me and she goes— because she wasn't going to go. Yeah, we had a really tough 72 hours. Now it was— and we— she lived between— we all live on the same street, so she lived between me and Clark. Oh, wow. And she had a really tough 72 hours with a terrible fall. I took her to the hospital in the middle of the night a couple days before, and she called me the morning of the Super Bowl and just said, I just— I'm not going to make it. I can't go. I said, Mom, let me walk to Starbucks, walk to your house, and, you know, let's talk about it.

No pressure.

If you're not going, I'm not going. And so we got down there and I said, Mom, as badly as you feel, here, you're going to feel the same later and you're going to be sad that you're not at the Super Bowl. So why don't you come feel badly with me in Arizona and let's see how this goes. And so she went and she was the ultimate trooper. And so go through the game, win the game. She wakes up as landing gear comes out and she looks at me and she goes, I'm so glad I went. I had the very best time. Yeah. And I was like, Yes.

What an experience. And you said she was passionate about sports.

57 Super Bowls. 57 Super Bowls. But she was the reason why my dad invested in the Chicago Bulls. So, a guy calls my dad in the '60s, 1966, and says, "Hey, I'm starting an NBA team in Chicago. Would you like to buy about 11.5%?" And my dad said, "No, thank you." Well, he told my mom about it. And my mom was the avid basketball fan. She was a good high school basketball player, but no opportunity for women to play college basketball. She went to North Texas State, which is now UNT today. And so, there wasn't that opportunity, but she still had that connection and affinity for it. And so, she begged and pleaded and begged and pleaded and finally, they go, "Okay, I'll invest." So, we bought that percentage for $67,000 in 1966. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Decent return on that investment. And, you know, every single year the Bulls would send a telegraph that said, please send more money now, going, you know, going out of business if you don't. And it wasn't that much money. It was $5,000, $20,000. I don't know what it was. And my dad would look at her and say, see what you got me into every single year? And then everybody sold out that was left from the original group after they had drafted Michael Jordan, except for my dad. He stuck around. Jerry Reinstorf's group bought it. And my dad stuck around as a partner. And my mom always said, your reward for sticking around was the greatest player of all time and 6 championships.

I feel like that story should be told more. Like, I don't know if that's like in the Chicago— I don't know anything about the Chicago Bulls, please don't kill me. But like, is that kind of like.

You know, it's not told anywhere. Okay. I, you know, and I, I think at some point As they continue to redevelop, they're doing some exciting development things around that stadium from a real estate standpoint. I think that a museum would be something that really would be fun to have there. You know, we've got our Hall of Honor in Kansas City, and then we have the National Soccer Hall of Fame at Toyota Stadium. These museums mean so much to people. They really do. And they tell such great stories. I mean, Canton, when they redid so much of it, Really, I mean, what sports mean to people, how they bring people together is so important.

Well, but what's also interesting is just how much for your family, the sports, the family integration, how it's so intertwined where like, you know, y'all wouldn't be owners in the Chicago Bulls if it wasn't for your mother or how the fact that y'all, you and your brother are, you know, you said 96% of your stuff is just integrated or?

Yeah.

And call it some version of 93, 94, 95, 96% of all of our businesses are owned by— we are the 4 of us, 4 siblings, but Clark and I own soccer separately together. So we're 50/50 partners. But sports is— it truly is a family business. And I guess if you asked anybody at FC Dallas what would be the one word to describe our culture, it's family. You spend more time with your coworkers in these businesses than you do with your own family. And, and frankly, if you don't spend the time there, you're doing it wrong. Um, on the sports side, it's, it's not just a business of dollars and cents, but the passion side of it and what happens on the field. I mean, the, the iterations of what can happen are, are numerous, and you have to be there and you have to be all in. I'll go back to my dad's life lessons. You have to be present. Nobody will care more than you. And that was another one of his life lessons that he said to both Clark and myself all the time about being present and being accounted for. And it's hard to have success, but yeah, it also brings us together. On World Cup 2026, I mean, I have all these different hopes for it, right? Obviously, I want my hometown to financially benefit from it. Obviously, I want to grow soccer for FC Dallas. I want it to produce the next Messi. I'm ready for that player to come from this market. I hope some of our best athletes start to pick soccer. We already have started to get some of them, but we're still not getting enough of our very best athletes. But my last hope is it creates lifetime memories for family and friends that experience this and have that commonality together that they can talk about 30 years later about, remember when we were there? I mean, Dallas in '94 had one of the greatest soccer matches of all time, the World Cup, which was the quarterfinal of Holland against Brazil. Brazil wins the game 3-2 on its way to winning the final. Well, I took a couple of my St. Mark's buddies and we still have that lifetime memory together. And we were there with my mom and dad. And I hope it brings people together.

I think it's easy to look at sports and go, that's the sexy side of y'all's portfolio. But what's the most financially successful, viable, like, hell, that's the huge win.

Well, I mean, I always point back to spending $67,000 on the Chicago Bulls. Our Chiefs investment was only $25,000 for 100% of that team.

And that also paid out well or.

Is paying out well. It's great. You know what? I think the more important message is this: being thoughtfully diversified. Than anything about what the biggest wins are, because my father was incredibly creative, made a lot of businesses. A business I'm incredibly proud of is called Hunt Midwest Enterprises in Kansas City and Centropolis there. You actually look them up on the internet. Centropolis is the world's largest underground business center. I think we're about 8 million square feet there, on our way to 15 to 16 million square feet underground.

And the underground caves.

Yeah.

And over 200 tenants and growing every day there. And then on the surface, real estate's a lot of development, multifamily, industrial. We're building a lot of industrial. There have been a lot of wins. There's also been some losses, some tough ones. World Championship Tennis was a tough one. But you hear McEnroe or Chris Everett, they often thank my dad for professionalizing tennis. He and Al Hill Jr., his nephew, helped professionalize modern tennis. And my dad gets a lot of credit. Al should get a lot of credit for this too, for the effort he put into it. But he was a bad loser in the end. And it just, it didn't end well. So you have those wins and losses and remembering them. But I think a lot of people lose sight of being diverse. We, we as a family try to diversify outside of sports and entertainment, but yet we continue to find ourselves investing in it when opportunities come up.

I don't like the work-life balance conversation because as an entrepreneur, there's no such thing. But how do you balance FC Dallas, Kansas City Chiefs, real estate, data centers, oil, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera?

I spend a lot of time talking about my dad. My dad always said, I don't care what it is that you do. I care that you're a productive member of society. I mean, he didn't care what job I had. You know, he always would want you to work in the family business, right? But I think he just wanted people to be productive members and be passionate about it. I'm passionate about soccer. I love the game so much. I have a great job. I'm actually passionate about real estate. You know, I enjoy buying large blocks of land, planning for the future with it. My siblings are passionate about different things. And it's really been a nice marriage. I mean, from a business standpoint, you can't do it all. And that's why you have to hire professional management teams to run these businesses who are experts in these spaces, period. And I mean, I love what our family office has done. Steve Capel is the CEO of the family office and built out— there are a lot of talented people. And we as a family have had the good fortune of having people work for incredibly long periods of time with us. And I'm a big— these are our coworkers. They don't work for me. That's not the culture I want to be part of because we're family. And it's not just me and my siblings and their children, it's our coworkers together. So, we've had that good fortune. And you think about a lot of our trustees. I mean, over some of the big ones, if you took the aggregate year, some of them have been with us for all— if you aggregate the trustees, 150-plus years. Of working with us, which is an amazing testament to longevity. But it's finding good people and treating them with the love and respect that they deserve to have.

From a style standpoint, I think about the diversity of owners in major league sports, and a lot of them are big personalities, and they're very.

Involved in.

You know, the coaching of the team. And I have this impression of the Hunt family that you guys, as you just said, you hire really good professional people and you empower them to do what they do very well. Am I wrong? Are you guys actually— are you like calling Andy Reid on the headset and telling him what plays to run?

Well, we do have a secret red phone in our suite that we call down. Yeah, no, I'm just kidding. No, it's, you know, again, We're not experts in that. We don't have the track record to do that or the frankly, the number of hours to be an expert in those spaces. So we've got to provide all the support system to ensure they call and ask, can we do this? Can we spend this amount of money? Look, so many people in the sports world lose sight and think of it just as a revenue business. And I think that is a huge mistake of sports owners because it is as much an expense business too as managing your bottom line. People always ask me about my brother Clark. They're always like, wow, 3 Super Bowls and the, you know, the number of Lamar Hunt trophies we won being AFC champions. And it's been an amazingly successful story. And one, he's a great guy. He's just a really great person. His God-given talent, you know, and everybody has something special, is his ability to negotiate and manage expenses. He is an expert in that space. And I have so much appreciation for him in that space. He also, he's the quiet version. I kid, we're kind of the mullet brothers. He's business in front and I'm kind of party in the back. And I always kid about that because I'm more social than he is. He actually is really social and a lot of fun to hang out with, but he is reserved. But he has this this unbelievable ability to negotiate and manage what those expenses look like. My father's God-given ability was his attention to detail. The volume of work that he produced and how detailed and how thoughtful it was, I've never seen anything like it. We used to sit around in a boardroom in our old family offices and the table, the board table dwarfed this table that we're at and it had 26 seats.

At it.

There would be a memo at every single seat, the table, that he had handwritten the first memo. It was typed. He'd have an assistant standing on either side of him and he would go back and edit. He'd get up from every seat and work his way around the table. And he viewed it as exercise. Instead of just people handing him a memo, he liked, he was like, well, it's good for my legs. Let's get my body moving. He's like, he would like that active lifestyle and he would produce thousands upon thousands of memos in a wide spectrum. But what mattered was he was able to memorialize what happened so that when negotiations happened and things happened, he would point back to his memo and say, no, we said this, did that. And he was a man of his word. You know, my mother had the ability to make you feel like the most special person in the world. You could be in a room full of people and she'd be talking to you and literally everything would drown out around you. You wouldn't even know that there was not another person in the room. And she— everybody always said she knew everything about me. She made me feel like the most special person in the world and I was a nobody. Well, you were not a nobody, but she had an unbelievable ability to do that. It's those special talents that people have. And when you can put them to work in a positive manner, great things can happen.

What is your God-given talent?

I think it's the die trying. Side of it. I'm so passionate. I love soccer so much. Every day is— this is a sport in its young stage, and it was still— I mean, even though we're 30 years in MLS, and it's a— it can be a fight to the death and on things, right? And, you know, if anything, I, I'm gonna, you know, go all the way, um, you know, and fight to the very end whether I win or lose, but I get back up off the mat. And I'm ready to go again.

Lane, what about yourself?

Uh, a question or my God-given talent?

God-given talent.

Oh, I don't know.

We can't, we can't just, you know, I don't know. I, I think that I had a mother that sounds a lot like his mother, and she was a gracious Southern lady, and she taught me to be empathetic, to try to understand where other people are coming from and the experiences they have. So I think that empathy is something that was a strong suit that came from my mom. I'm curious about your grandfather who created the initial family wealth. I understand from a poker game where he won an oil lease, if my research was accurate. But did you know your grandfather?

I did not. He passed away in 1974. I was the last grandchild. Yeah. And I was born in 1976.

Okay.

And he actually, as the story goes, because my dad and I had a long heart-to-heart about it, 19— he was a cotton farmer in Arkansas, in El Dorado, Arkansas. 1917, 1918, 1919, he went broke. The flood got him, the locusts got him, and the drought got him 3 years in a row. But they discovered oil in Lake County, Arkansas, and where he was, and he borrowed $50 from the local pharmacist. Does this sound familiar from another story? Sort of like a Coca-Cola type story, right? He had borrowed $50, and so he went out and He would go buy an interest in oil well and wind up with an override or buy minerals and then come back. So something he paid $5 for, he'd sell to you for $10, you know, and do that. But he also won leases in poker games and minerals in poker games. But he had a near photographic memory or photographic memory. So playing poker with him was impossible. You know, my dad wasn't much of a card player, but he was really good at it. Mathematically, he was exceptional., at it, and he could remember what he saw and, you know, create a number system. But my grandfather played checkers. He loved to play checkers, and so he would play with his kids. Well, in turn, uh, I would play with my dad when I was little, and if I got a king, I got a quarter or whatever. But even as a 7-year-old, he would deal out a butt-kicking to me at checkers, um, and it was quite a humbling experience. But he, he loved those memories of playing with his father. His father liked those type of games. My dad, when he grew up, would create games for all the neighborhood kids to play. In fact, at one point they had a dog that had a million puppies, and he would line them up against each other. Um, and that was some of his happiest memories, talking about that dog, those puppies, that life, the neighborhood kids playing football games and baseball games and those things. So his childhood name was Game. Oh wow, that was his nickname. Okay, so he had a passion for it from the time he was little.

Great story. So we, we've talked a lot about World Cup sports, the family, and, and obviously the economic impact of, of, of not just Houston and primarily Dallas. What about Texas Stock Exchange? Do you have thoughts on that? Because of like, if we boom World Cup Boom, Texas Stock Exchange. It just feels like there's so much coming to Texas.

In Dallas specifically. Here would be my thought on it. It doesn't surprise me, right? This is an unbelievable business community. It makes sense to me from that standpoint. I think it's a great endeavor and I truthfully don't know a ton about it, but it can be pulled off. Here is the place. If it's going to be pulled off anywhere, this is the place that's going to be pulled off and done. And I think it's really great. Again, it's that entrepreneurial spirit that exists in the state of Texas and makes it— I was a kid, Texas is the best country to live in. I think it's the fourth largest GDP. It is something like that. And we would also be— this is a fact that I always shocks people, I think we'd be number 4 in green energy. So China would be 1, I think US 2. Actually, it was then Germany and then it would've been Texas, but I think Texas is now past Germany in green energy. So as much as we're an oil and gas state, which hearkens back to our roots and my grandfather coming over in the '30s to Tyler, to East Texas and the East Texas oil fields, and then moving to Dallas. He moved the family. My father was actually born in El Dorado, Arkansas in 1932. He was the last child of H.L. Hunt. And the reason being is they had already moved to Tyler. But my grandmother at the time, Lida, who was 38, was convinced she was going to die in childbirth. So she had my Aunt Margaret, Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge, drive her back when you didn't even have to have a driver's license. I think she 15 at the time because she was convinced she was gonna die. So she went back to her, uh, doctor in Arkansas, um, and gave birth. And always kidding, my dad was supposed to be born in July, but it was half price if you were born in August, so he held out till August 2nd and was born. He always kidded about being frugal, um, but they lived there. And then about 1937, they moved to Dallas, but our family interest had already moved, I think, out west to the, the Permian there. And, you know, Hunt Oil was born and it's been a great oil and gas company.

Are you still neighbors with your siblings?

So Clark and I are neighbors. Our mother lived between us. She passed away about 2 years ago and actually have a cousin who lives between us. And I was a kid, the police and fire stations between Clark and I. So that's, that's how we keep things safe between the two of us. But no, it's fun. I miss having my mom not there walking down to her house. We go down to each other's house all the time. We see each other driving down the street. We talk. Like I said, I mean, if it's not 5 times a day, it may be 10, which is scary that we talk to each other. And it's really fun to just have.

That connection, you know, not, not to bring up SMU yet again, but that's one of the cool things I like about SMU is you will see people like Lark just walking around. Oh, you know, like, or David Miller, just there. And because it's such a small school, there's access.

Isn't it amazing what David and Kyle have done for SMU? I'm so proud. Kyle was a year behind me at St. Mark's, and his success story has been amazing. I'm so happy for him and everything, but they have been so generous in their giving and really helped push SMU forward. And look, SMU has a great alumni base. A lot of people have been successful on a lot of fronts, and It's such an asset for this community and.

Such a fine institution. So World Cup, Dallas, world stage, post-2026, what's next for— what's your next mountain to climb, your next dragon to slay?

What's your next— the Women's World Cup 2031. I mean, I've said we didn't get the final in 2026, which is disappointing. Disappointing. I actually, this last February, I was at the Super Bowl and had breakfast with Gianni Infantino, who's the, uh, head of FIFA, and his top aides. And we were sitting there and I said, you, you guys made a mistake not putting the final in Dallas. And I was teasing him a little bit. I got a look of shock from the aides sitting around at the table. I said, that's all right, Women's World Cup 2031, we'd love to have the final. It will do an amazing job. And the beauty of it being at AT&T Stadium, which is going to be called Dallas Stadium for the World Cup, is that it's 72 and sunny all the time inside. You can't guarantee that at outdoor stadiums in the summer in.

The United States.

Yeah.

Well, Dan, it's been a treat to have you on The Deal Table. Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing, uh, your, your stories and experience. Um, appreciate it. I'm looking forward to my first Chiefs.

Game, um, in, in a few weeks. It is. Well, first off, thank you guys. I've really enjoyed spending the time with you. It's been a treat. It's always fun to talk about my mom and dad and brother and memory lane. Arrowhead's quite a place. That's what I would— you know, I know it's Kansas, but Dorothy said there's no place like home. And we are on Missouri side, but there's no place like home there. If you're— if you've never been to a game at Arrowhead, I would strongly recommend it because it's one of the greatest sporting events or experiences you'll ever have.

One thing is interesting, and I know we're trying to wrap up, but, you know, one of the— doing this podcast and talking to so many people, you brought up earlier something that resonated with me because it was just like, we all have the same problems, just where's the comma? You know, like, as an entrepreneur myself, like, my one comma problem could be your, your 20 comma problem. But also how much legacy and how much your, your family comes involved or your father. Like the podcast we recorded before this, I would say 20 minutes was about the father and the son relationship. So it's just interesting how much the family helps drive the business acumen and just all the above. Even if we are trying to be a business-y podcast or whatever this is.

Your roots come from somewhere, right, in life. And, you know, people talk about kamas and all of that. And like at the core, really focused on being the best human being that I can be and others. And if you do that as your foundational element, then I think success will find you. And I would say this, and I'm 48 years old, I'll be 49 at the end of the week. So many people lose sight of all of the commas they can try to rack up instead, not living in the moment, enjoying the moment, and understanding you have to be incredibly lucky to make a lot of money. Things have to almost go perfectly for you. You can have the greatest idea ever, and if your timing is wrong, then it's not going to work no matter what. Or something bad can happen. Be thankful for what you have and opportunities and work as hard as you can at it, but be the best person and stick out a helping hand to others too, right? That need it. We don't know what people are going through in life. And it's hard to, you know, understand what's happening. But some people need you for you to stick your hand out and help them out. And, you know, that has a lot of reward to it, too.

Well, thank you so much for being here with us today.

Yeah.

Thank you, guys.

Yeah.