Spanish Teacher to $86 Billion

I'm a big capitalist, and I think one of the biggest ways we can address and solve some of the challenges of today is through capitalism.

Jennifer Chandler is the North Texas president of Bank of America, where she also leads the bank's national endowment and foundation practice, managing approximately $90 billion for foundations and endowments across the country.

We manage investments for other foundations. So, family foundations, hospital and college endowments all across the country. That's about an $86 billion practice, and we also help them raise and save money.

A first generation college student who graduated from the University of Texas at age 20. She began her career as a high school Spanish teacher before building a two decade career in banking. She now serves as the incoming chair of the Dallas Regional Chamber.

A high school teacher, and now a significant leader within Bank of America. That journey doesn't make sense. It makes more sense like in a movie or something.

Definitely an environment where we grew up knowing that we were going to own our future. I started as a teacher because I wanted to give back, but I quickly realized if I could get into a big institution and work harder than anybody else, I felt like I could move up through that institution, and that's been able to occur.

In this episode, Jennifer explains why capitalism and philanthropy are a flywheel rather than opposing forces, why effective philanthropy is harder than it looks, and how a historic wealth transfer is reshaping who controls capital, and how Dallas puts it to work.

More and more women are controlling the financial pocketbook. How does that affect Bank of America?

It's for a few reasons. We outlive you. More are going to the workforce, and then the family unit has changed. No individual is the same. We're not a monolith. So everything starts with just understanding the client.

The Deal Table's brought to you by Capital Southwest, a Dallas-based internally managed business development company focused on supporting lower middle market businesses. The firm partners with business owners and private equity sponsors to provide flexible capital solutions that help companies achieve their growth objectives. Capital Southwest, a best-in-class BDC built on partnership and long-term value creation. Security National Bank, a family-owned bank with more than 60 years of serving business owners who value a true financial partner. From lending and treasury management to long-term financial relationships, the bank takes the time to understand the people behind the business, not just the balance sheet. Security National Bank. They bank the person, not just the business. Blockchain.com. Since 2011, Blockchain.com has earned the trust of more than 40 million users and facilitated over a trillion dollars in crypto transactions. Through Blockchain Wealth, they bring investors and their advisers the white-glove service private banking has offered for decades. Built for digital assets. Blockchain.com. In digital assets since the beginning.

Jennifer Chandler, thank you for joining us at The Deal Table. I'm excited. Been trying to get you on here for a long time. I met Jennifer at a Texas Lyceum event and was immediately impressed and immediately wanted her on the show. So, thank you so much for being here.

I'm happy to be here. I'm glad the calendars finally aligned.

Finally. Yeah, that's great. So real quick, what is your role, and what does all that entail?

Well, I have a few roles at Bank of America, and I'll try to keep it simple, but locally here in North Texas, I'm the president for the bank.

We have about 14,000 colleagues across North Texas. And as you know, like everything else, growing pretty quickly. So, in that capacity, I help bring the entire enterprise together. That's everything from our financial centers that people walk through every single day up to the investment bank, and we've been really intentional around how that works. So, I'm happy to go deeper into that. But I also have a day job, a national role where I lead the endowment and foundation team. We manage investments for other foundations. So, family foundations, hospital and college endowments all across the country. That's about an $86 billion practice. So, we manage the investments but also help them raise and save money.

I hear president of a bank, that's a giant undertaking itself, and then being head of philanthropy. I mean, how do you do both?

They actually intertwine really nicely together. So for example, this morning I held an event with the Communities Foundation of Texas, about 150 people in the room. So if you think about that particular event, we talked about what we do in the community with Bank of America, but I was also helping advise them on the consulting front with the study we do with philanthropy. So a lot of it intertwines with people I'm meeting and seeing on a day-to-day basis.

The other thing, and I will say first and foremost, is every part of the bank has a phenomenal leader. So whether it's Merrill Lynch or the business bank or the investment bank that I mentioned, they all have a local leader as well. I'm simply bringing that all together to act more like a local CEO, which is really important.

And we can go deeper into any of this, but if you're, for example, in the private bank, but you're doing a massive credit deal with our commercial real estate team, or potentially have an IPO, someone that understands those different aspects of your business and understands you as an individual is really important. So I help bring all that together, but with a lot of other leaders and colleagues that help make it happen every day.

And I'm assuming, like, when you have a large capable team, one, if it's coming to you, it's because they can't solve it and you're there to solve the difficult problems. But also probably your main thing is to make a decision, because somebody else already did the research, somebody else did the homework, and they're giving you options.

That's a great comment and somewhat true. And I see you have a book here and lots of books across the room. But if you look at any good CEO or leader of any organization, yes, they're there when things escalate. And I do do that, and anyone can call me anytime if something is an issue. But I would say it's also very proactive.

I intentionally go into a financial center every single week because I want to know, what is it like when you walk through the doors in South Dallas? What is it like in Collin County? And so I think it's also being proactive and seeing and understanding what people do. The other reality is we are a tech company first and foremost when you think about what we do on a daily basis.

So as we innovate and evolve, someone that really understands how we do something, whether it's the commercial bank or the financial centers, to help bridge the technology over is also important. So yes, I escalate and I help understand the client, but I'd say it's also very proactive to see what do we need to do next to continue to win.

What do you like better, making the money or giving the money away?

They're both hard. You would think giving away money is easy. It is not. We advise our clients just like they come to us before they buy a yacht or before they buy an airplane. Before they write a million-dollar check to someone, we want them to do their due diligence.

So I actually enjoy helping our clients make more money. I'm a big capitalist, and I think one of the biggest ways we can address and solve some of the challenges of today is through capitalism. So I love philanthropy. I live and breathe it every day and we want to make it effective.

But I get a lot of enjoyment out of watching our clients. Some of my favorite stories are our clients that started with a student banking account, grew with us to a small business to a business, and then IPO. Then of course they're giving that away to the community and we're a big part of it. But I think it's the journey, and I truly believe anyone in the United States, I think you'd hear that from our own CEO. We are the Bank of America. You can do and achieve anything here, and we're simply here to provide the capital to do it.

Speaking of journey. High school teacher, cheerleading coach, Duncanville, and now you're a significant leader within Bank of America. Like, that journey doesn't make sense.

On paper. Of course it makes sense.

It makes more sense like in a movie or something, right?

No, and I think it's why I made the prior point too, because it's been my own journey. I'm a first generation college student. My sister attended college as well, but it was definitely an environment where we grew up knowing that we were going to own our future, and I felt like I had every opportunity to do that.

I've been working since I legally could, probably informally before then. But it was instilled in us, one, to give back anything you have, whether you have a lot or not. So philanthropy was a big part of it, and we were talking about that earlier, kind of turning things outward to others. But it was also meritocracy, and I've believed if you work hard you can achieve and do anything. And I started as a teacher because I wanted to give back.

I graduated college at age 20. I was young and graduated the University of Texas in two and a half years, and probably a little too young to go work for a big enterprise. And I loved teaching and wanted to help people, and I think education is a great way to do that, and loved it. But I quickly realized if I could get into a big institution and work harder than anybody else, I felt like I could move up through that institution, and that's been able to occur.

It's a great American work ethic story, right? Work hard. Very impressive. Jennifer, we almost overlapped at some place. I was with Dean Witter Reynolds back in the 90s, and you joined Morgan Stanley, who acquired

Dean Witter.

So we have a lot of points of intersection here.

But you're way, way older.

I'm way, way older. But I'm saying that there was a moment in time, 25 years ago, where we almost

I was going to say, maybe we did. Yeah.

Maybe almost had a point of intersection. But wealth management, banking. I started Triumph Bank in Memphis, Tennessee, which was acquired by Simmons, and served as board chairman there. And so I can relate to your job, although it looks like you have too many jobs. And so I'm curious. You describe the philanthropic side as a money management function, right? You're managing money for other foundations and endowments. $86 billion. So that's not under the Merrill Lynch umbrella.

That's a great question. And I do want to acknowledge Dean Witter, Morgan Stanley. That's who took a bet on me. So that is where I started, and they were a tough interview, and sent me to the Twin Towers in New York, and I learned a lot. So it's fun to have that mutual connection.

They make you do a phone interview where you pretended that you were trying to sell something to somebody.

That's right. And I think they hung up on me.

Group of psychiatrists, and they would make you call them and try to sell them something.

Pretend. Sell the pen.

Yes. And it was not easy.

Somehow we both survived that.

Exactly. Which was a big deal. Not everyone did.

So, to answer your question, and I love to talk about this practice because we are number one across the globe. We've got a ton of industry awards, and it's for the reasons you just asked. But yes, we manage $86 billion, and it is on either platform, to answer your question. So we have a fiduciary platform with a private bank.

Okay.

And we also have the brokerage platform for Merrill Lynch. And it just depends on the needs and the complexity of the client. But we are the largest outsourced chief investment office, and more and more large endowments and foundations and boards seek that partnership with an OCIO. And so in that capacity we manage everything from alternative investments, private equity, basic liquidity, anything the client needs, and a phenomenal team under Chris Hyzy, who you often see on CNBC. He's helping with that investment direction.

But a ton of expertise. It goes back, I mentioned it, I can only do this with a bunch of incredible people. So we have a staff of folks that all came through philanthropy that helped advise that work. Actually, the event I hosted this morning had a gentleman who helped edit the NACUBO study for years.

So we balance the investment direction and the needs of the client with also understanding the uniqueness of an institution, an endowment or foundation, whether it's in perpetuity or are they going to spend down. So we couple the investment team with our advising team and consulting practice that helps raise and save money.

But we also get very deep into complex assets here sitting here in Texas. A lot of oil and gas and real estate and unique hard assets that many endowments and foundations hold. So we have expertise there, about 200 people that solely do that. We own real estate within foundations.

Are they all here in Texas, or is this a national

It's a national practice, but the oil and gas team, I always joke, you can tell they're in their cowboy boots in the office downtown. You can tell the geologists from the others, but many of those folks sit right here in Dallas or in Fort Worth.

Okay.

And it's unique. And just to give you some history, it came from years and years of settling some of the largest and oldest trusts and estates. We, or U.S. Trust. I helped do the brand change, bring that into private bank.

So as many households as we've covered over the years, many of those estates would settle and gift into the large foundations and endowments. In many cases, we were trustees for those families. And then the beauty of what we do at Bank of America is we already bank the hospitals, the colleges, the museums, the zoos.

So all of those nonprofits, we've simply bridged their needs together on the banking side with our team that manages the investments.

This is not a high net worth, ultra high net worth family sets up a trust practice. This is endowments.

Great question. We do both, and we're seeing a lot of that. I know in the business you're in you see it as well, that we do a lot of establishment of the family foundation, in particular ahead of a liquidity event. And we encourage that the sooner you can establish that foundation, whether you

want to gift private business ownership into the trust or plan for the future self. So we still were adding family foundations at a very fast pace as well.

Yeah, I saw that in your biographical materials, that you focus on high net worth families going through a significant transition.

Yes, that's the space where I work in now.

And it's really interesting to see. And I come from a financial planning background. I'll have clients that are two months away from closing a very large transaction. They're like, should

we get our tax attorney involved? Should we be thinking about making gifts? And you know, I kind of do one thing really well and that's work the deal. But it's amazing to me how unprepared a lot of families are when they're

We see it too often. Or unfortunately the sad passing of the founder ahead of when maybe that was planned or scheduled. So we get brought in a lot for those situations.

But I already mentioned it when you asked about what I love doing. Ideally we've helped them grow and we've been the private bank. We've been Merrill Lynch for them. So they know through years and years of working with us that we're going to establish those trust structures well before the sale of the company.

So we get ahead when they're our clients. But so often, maybe we don't know they move quickly on a sale. So the sooner we can get in, the better.

You're a capitalist through and through. When it comes to people giving, what is the balance between, hey, I'm using this as a vehicle to make more money, versus goodwill?

It's a great question, and we actually do a study of philanthropy every two years with the Lilly School in Indiana. And through and through we find people give because they care, right? They give to what matters most. It's

where they give. It's why they give and how. The tax aspect is absolutely important, and it's a big part of why and how we engage on the logistics of it, how we structure the trust, what they're going to do directly with the foundation versus generation skipping. So you see expertise that we bring to the table from the tax advantage, and we talked about it ahead of liquidity events. Those are massive savings.

So you see that, but it goes back to your point too. You just said it. They're incredibly busy. You're busy. You're in the midst of doing the deal. You've put 110% of your day in that business every single day. So they haven't thought about what they're going to do next. Well, philanthropy is also, unless they're a serial entrepreneur, which I know there's quite a few, but it's also what are they going to do in their next chapter. We have a great partnership.

We do some work with Jim Collins. He just launched a new book on this latter chapter of life. And it has a lot to do with that. What are we going to do next? Or with families, how am I going to instill the values in the next generation? I've acquired and built this wealth. And how do I make sure they're good stewards of that wealth, but also feel values? So tax is important, but if you look at all the data in our very own study, it's not the driving factor.

I won't say what it is, but we've had a call about a friend of mine and her charity and her nonprofit. And it's just, for a layman like myself that's not necessarily in this world, it's like, oh yeah, I'm giving, I'm helping. But then you don't really understand that there's so much business infrastructure for that nonprofit that needs to be there in order for that to even matter. Because in that situation it's just like throwing money at a hole and it just keeps on gobbling it up, versus perpetually

growing itself.

Exactly. And that's why I go back to the way we have the conversation with our clients is, think about it just like any other investment, right? You want to be effective. You want to drive impact. And I know that can be a challenge when your heart is in it and you just want to pour into that thing, whether it's the arts or hunger. But we do try to be that partner, and sometimes it's a third party that can be that balance and the voice in that.

I noticed in some of the prep materials for this particular podcast there were some stats about women in financial leadership. I don't know if that came from you or not, but it says 75% of women under 45 now manage their own finances. I saw something that said 90% of women will control the wealth in their family at some point in their lives.

Of course, you outlive us by five or six years on average. So part of that is a transfer, you know, at death. But more and more women are controlling the financial pocketbook. And so how does that affect Bank of America?

We are seeing that, and you'll see those type data points all throughout the industry. And it's for a few reasons, and a lot of it is obviously we outlive you. You're seeing more going to the workforce. If you look at the latest college enrollments, you see a lot of women there. And then the family unit has

changed quite a bit across the United States, whether it's the birth rates going down. So there's a lot of factors that lead into that. I mentioned earlier, sometimes unfortunately the founder may pass away and a woman's taking on the ownership of a company. So we're absolutely seeing that trend with a great wealth transfer.

And it's like any client we serve. I always say no individual is the same. No woman is the same. We're not a monolith. So everything starts with just understanding the client. Fundamentally, to your point, do they live longer? So does that change our time horizon of the investments? If we're going to do a Monte Carlo scenario and time things out, there's some true data points that may be different.

You're saying that just because

I got my idea.

Yes, I thought you might follow it.

That was the class. It was a decision modeling class. It's like, use it later. Oh god, I'm like, oh, we're getting flashbacks. I thought I was done.

It's real. And then that's the other reason philanthropy is so important, because with the great wealth transfer, it's got to go somewhere, right? So where is it going to go? If we're having fewer children, is it going to go to women? It's going to go to the next generation.

So as a firm and as a bank, we are very engaged around knowing the next generation, knowing the spouses and being involved in that conversation. We bank 70 million households in the United States. So we see a responsibility to the U.S. economy to make sure we're abreast of trends we're seeing there, and of course being in front of all the clients we serve.

And we also want to make sure they're educated and informed. And again, if a spouse passes away and you've never been the one to pay the bills or balance the checkbook, it's important to have the conversation and be there to help guide people through.

Speaking of the changing family dynamics, there was a giant stat that came out less than a month ago, and I don't know if you saw this, but it was, for the first time in history, women in their 40s are outpacing teenagers in birth rate.

Wow.

And something like that, how does that affect banking? How does that affect everything that we were just talking about?

It's all intertwined. And to your point, if we're all living longer, it's great to see what we've done on the healthcare front. That's fascinating. That innovation is just going to keep happening.

So think about, if retirement age is still 60 or whenever you determine, but you're living much longer, all of those things come to be factored in the work we do. And so again, fundamentally it's how we engage, who we engage with, making sure we understand them. And then fundamentally, at the end of the day, it's just getting in there with some of the logistics and data to make sure they've got the wealth they need through retirement.

I have seen over the years, all the studies say that women are better investors than men. There have been studies of all women investment clubs versus all men investment clubs. Men are overconfident, and that translates into more active trading because they think they're smarter than the market,

and they have higher portfolio turnover and higher fees. Whereas women ask for directions, admit when they need help, and they have much lower portfolio turnover. And this is tens of thousands of investment accounts that Schwab monitored over a long period of time. I think women are fairly well equipped to handle their finances.

I'm curious about sort of the shift with technology in banking. I know that living in Memphis, Tennessee, there was a bank called Union Planters which was ultimately acquired by Regions, and 25, 30 years ago they had a new president who said, we want to keep people from coming in the branches. We want to push them to technology.

And everybody thought it was heresy, right? No, this is a relationship business and this is high touch. And so it didn't hurt them. But now, I won't say who I bank with, but it's one of your peer competitors. And they're closing.

We'll work on that before I leave.

Yeah, exactly. I have no brand allegiance to them, I can assure you. And they are closing all the branches around me, right? Which I think is an industry thing. I don't know if Bank of America is doing the same, but I do think that banks in general are recognizing that I'd rather make a deposit from my cell phone and check my bank balance and transfer money. I don't have any physical checks anymore.

I haven't written a physical check in probably a few years, right? And so there is less need, and it is much more efficient from a cost structure standpoint not to have all the bricks and mortar.

But are we ever going to, is the day of having a personal banker ending? Is it just going to be for the people that need all these additional services, because it looks like the branches are kind of going away.

Well, it's a great question, and I will earn your business before I leave you today. So we have over 130 financial centers right here in North Texas, and we are actually adding, given the growth that we see. And that's part of my role, going back to what does the president do? Well, I have a great understanding of what's happening on the ground here.

So for example, we added one near Sherman. We all know what's going on in Sherman. If you're sitting in North Texas, what's going on with TI and the investment there? So our role is to make sure we really understand the needs of the community and we're there. To answer your question, of course it's evolving, and we like to say we're high-tech, high-touch.

We're going to be where you need us to be when you need us to be. The reality is it's usually 11 o'clock at night. You realize you need to sell something. You can do that. You finally get a minute to look at how your portfolio did. We want you to be able to wake up at 11 and look at your phone and do that.

At the same time, our clients walk through the door every single day. And that's why I go into those financial centers. I was at the Park Cities location this morning. But we evolve. And again, I mentioned my role is to help us be forward thinking. I can't answer your question directly what it's going to look like in 10 years from now. In some locations, we use a lot of data.

If we close a center, it's because we used a ton of data to tell us it was the right thing to do. We can tell people are opting to go online. We look at patterns. Are they going to the location near their office versus the one near their home? If you think about what you do, individuals may be selling a company, or a business owner who's head down.

They may walk into a financial center on Saturday in their flip-flops at 10:00 and be a billionaire. So we want to be there for them at the time they need us. So we'll watch it, we'll evolve. To your point, the checks, you can take a photo. A lot of that innovation is coming out of Plano, Texas. So of our 14,000 teammates, close to eight or nine thousand are technology, and we have more patents,

I like to say, than NASA, but I'll just say the leading number in the financial services industry. That's happening out of Texas, and they're creating it day by day. But we answer and we want to respond to what the client needs. We're not going to shut down and say we decided it was going to be a cost save, so we're going to shut down the bricks and mortar and we're going to ask you to do things on your phone.

We're going to listen to the clients and be there how they need us and where they need us.

And they come in, they want to talk to a human. They want to know all their options, right?

No, actually that will surprise you too. The phone usage and the digital will surprise you. It's not what you would think on the age, like the baby boomers and others use the phone. They like it.

So it just depends. We do see a lot of folks that walk in, but it's more, I'd say, the holistic advice too.

You may walk in thinking you need another credit card. Do you really? Or would it be smarter to look at a HELOC at a lower rate? You've got a lot of equity in that house. So I don't know that the technology is quite where it needs to be to give you real advice.

And we love the folks that walk through our doors. I mentioned where I'm from. We hire and bring in students, whether they're from Europe or a local city or community. They're often the financial center in that neighborhood, and they've been there 20, 30, 40 years. It's relational to us, as big as we are, and I think that sometimes surprises people.

The branch I just came from in Park Cities, they know the majority of the folks that walk through those doors because we're in the neighborhood, and that's important to us.

So, speaking of the brick and mortar, Texas Stock Exchange just announced that they're going to be at the Bank of America Tower.

Yes.

What effect, if at all, does that have with Bank of America? Is it because obviously there's a branding play there, right? But is there something more? Because obviously, well maybe it's not obvious, but some of the major investors in Texas Stock Exchange are not necessarily Bank of America. It's another bank.

Yet. And maybe our clients.

I'm just saying, I'm not going to name it because I don't want to give, because they don't.

No, it's an exciting time and we could not be more thrilled. And we are thrilled with all three stock exchanges having a presence in North Texas, and we believe all tides rise together.

I already mentioned 14,000 people here. We have far more people here than New York, or close to what we have in the headquarters, and that's not a small thing for the city of Dallas. And I love the growth across the Metroplex. I'm incoming chair for the regional chamber. The region is very important, but I also believe the city of Dallas and downtown is important, and uptown.

So it's exciting. And to your point, they may not be a client today. We bank almost every other household, so I like to think a majority are. But either way, whether they're our client or not, we think it's a great experience for our colleagues to be around what's happening in the stock exchange. We love what we think they're going to be doing with the experience when people have an IPO or come to the Texas Stock Exchange.

So even if it's just adjacent to that, I think the energy. We both talked about working in the Twin Towers. You'll remember that forever.

I certainly will.

Oh, I certainly will. The pace. I told you, I talk quick, I move fast. So the markets, just the energy, the vibrancy, and again, capitalism at its finest.

And when you look at fundamentally what the Texas Stock Exchange and the other stock exchanges are doing from a legislative standpoint too, and encouraging people to incorporate in the state of Texas, I would say all tides rise together. I think you're going to see more headquarters, more incorporations, and that will benefit us and our clients.

Yeah. Because when I saw that I was like, oh, that's great. I think that makes complete sense. And then I started thinking about the back end politics of it. I was like, that's interesting, because why didn't they pick another building that didn't have maybe a competitor's name on the top of the building, you know? So I think that was great for you guys.

No, we were thrilled and I think it's going to be win-win for everyone. And again, it's now Y Street, so plenty going on.

So when I was a young stockbroker at Dean Witter Reynolds, the first discount brokerage firms came into existence, and there was this intellectual panic over, oh my gosh, they're going to put the full service

and that didn't happen. They did take market share. Do you measure, do you know how much of the business is going to all of these electronic platforms that offer deposits now and certificates of deposit? And I'm not sure that they're all regulated the same, right? And people may not really understand those differences. Can you speak to that?

I can. I'm actually glad you raised that, because we're all using different analogies with AI coming out, and it's like when we got email, it's like when we got the internet. And I love that you brought up the discount brokerage, because we did, I remember sitting in the seat.

I was actually at Bank of America Securities at that time on a big institutional desk. All the IPOs are happening, and I remember, I'm so glad you brought me back to that moment in time, because we thought, okay, are they going to need us? And if you think about trading today, even algorithms, the bots we use, all that technology is not new to any one of us.

So the short answer is we have an incredible self-directed platform, Merrill Edge. So I'm not going to speak to the others and them holding deposits, but I will speak to the fact, again, we're already banking so many households. We want to be their self-directed platform, and we do it incredibly well, and we have a bit of a dimmer switch.

If you want to put a concentrated stock position from your company over there and you want to trade, you'll have that option. A lot of our clients want some guidance and advice, and you know this being in the industry, we want to know their time horizon. We want to know and help them through the experience, and we do that with our technology.

But the beauty with us, with all that we do, we want it seamless. Going back to, if you want to walk into a center and talk to any one of our colleagues, you can do that. If you want to look at your self-directed account, your total net worth, your loan, and your foundation or donor advised fund, you can sit in your room at night and look at it all in one platform.

And I think that is incredibly important. We also offer research, and I think that's important to our Merrill clients. So our goal is to arm our clients with everything they need. And of course we watch the competition, and to your point on regulation, that's something, when you're in our platform, again, you can do what you'd like to do on a self-directed platform, but we will always be there to guide. We have a responsible growth strategy.

We want to advise our clients to do the right thing, and some will take risk and can do that in the self-directed platform. But we still continue to see a shift to guidance. I mentioned that in the endowment and foundation space where they want a true OCIO. Well, the families we serve, they've worked hard to build the wealth they want to build.

You hear stories and you see things on the internet and people will make an investment play. I just don't see as much of that in my day-to-day. I see a lot of hardworking people that want to save their wealth. They want to grow it steadily and be able to give it back to the next generation.

And I just see more of that in my day-to-day.

And the complexity is rising, right? And I think that was probably the missing piece of the concern about, oh my gosh, the discount brokers are going to take all this away, is we have all these mutual funds coming out now. This was rewinding the tape back to 25, 30 years ago.

And so the sense was, well, people will just do it themselves because now they have all the tools to do it themselves. There were so many tools that it was overwhelming.

Exactly.

So they still need that personal guidance. They still need someone to help them through that, maybe more now than they did previously.

That's what I see. They want a partner, and it's like any other coach. We all know what to do with diet and exercise, right? Everyone knows what to do, but it's having a partner that says, did you do that today? That accountability partner that helps you along the way.

And that's what we find people want, that quarterly investment review, or to sit down once a month to say, am I on track? Could I save more? Could I do more? And again, I just don't know that the technology is there to do that.

What was the saying, what gets measured gets fixed or something?

It's managed. Managed.

Yeah. So, quick pivot just for fun, because I want to make sure we have enough time. Team Chandler.

Yes.

Let's get into it. What is it? It's the fam.

That's the family. I'm a mother of four and I have an incredible husband. And so everything we do, I try to think of us as a team, and it's just such a joy to have the family we have. And I would even say my role in the bank, and just throughout my life, I've found the power of collaboration and everyone working together just amplifies everything

you can do. So with four kids, three teenagers, prayer is welcome. It is not easy on a day-to-day basis, but we try to focus everything we can as a team. And that means sometimes the kids do things independently. They carry the load. They help, they do chores, they do things independently.

And I also think it's a partnership and a team when you have a spouse. And every day, I think it's something you have to be intentional around. We go on a walk every morning together or a run, and are very intentional with our time. But yes, that's the way we do it.

And speaking of time, we already talked about how you basically already have two full-time roles. Then you know, family, but then you have Texas Lyceum, and then you have all these other board seats, all these other, like, how is it that you're dividing up? I mean, do you have clones? Like how are you doing that?

I actually sat in Microsoft three hours this week and there's some incredible technology that almost clones you, but I haven't figured it out yet.

I go back to my prior comment on how things are intertwined. I'm very intentional with time. One, I think you have to be in the moment wherever you are. So if I'm in a leadership forum, if I'm in the Dallas Regional Chamber, I try to be fully in that moment and that time. But I'm also very intentional with who I have the honor and pleasure to get to see through those various forums.

And in many cases they are clients. I'm going to better understand them as a client by getting to see them in those forums. I get to see what matters to them most. The other reality, especially through the Dallas Regional Chamber, which is just an incredibly smart investment of anyone's time, along with the Dallas Citizens Council, I have the opportunity to be with the best leaders in the best firms across all of the United States, because we all know they're based here.

So I get to see, how is Toyota addressing that situation? How is Blue Cross? Name any chamber member. So I come back a better leader at Bank of America, whether it's how we're leveraging AI. Again, I was at Microsoft this week with a three-hour forum. I brought back several ideas to Bank of America.

So I try to make sure that time is valuable, understand and prepare, who's going to be in that room, who am I going to see, and how can I better understand them and help them and connect them with what we do at Bank of America and all of our resources. And then again, just be in the moment wherever you are at that moment in time and try to enjoy it.

And I will not second that, but I will validate that, because where we met, we met in Victoria, Texas for a two-day, two and a half day thing with the Texas Lyceum. And I guess I should consider myself very lucky because I got to know you over the course of two days, where now that I know what I know about you, it's like there's no way in hell I would be able to get two days out of you straight.

Like, hey, can we hang out? I mean, it took what, eight months to get you on the podcast. So

Are you complaining to Jennifer?

No, it's not a complaint. I'm being gracious. It's gratitude. I'm being appreciative. It's also a compliment. No, but it's just, I'm validating what you said about when you're in the moment, you do the thing. But also acknowledging how cool it is for me to be able to meet you in that setting and be able to sit with you at the same table. And I think we went

and hung out with, when they're doing the takedowns in the police department.

We did, and that's a perfect example. So we were studying law enforcement, and Victoria is one of the best in the state of Texas. Well, guess what we're doing right here in Dallas at the South Campus.

We're adding a phenomenal police training program, and Jennifer Stalgates and Limic B are out raising money for that and it's going to be incredible. Well, what did I bring back from those two days? I was able to see how they attract people from other states to come to that particular program. Well, we're going to take that and do that in the University of North Texas.

So all of that's valuable. But yes, and it is, I mean sometimes I'm going to wait to be able to get that time with someone, but hopefully when I do, we're going to do it right. We're going to have quality time where we can help one another. So that's the way I look at it.

Did I hear you say, when you were talking about your four children, that they gave tours? You were talking about them being involved, I think, in things.

They do quite a bit, and I've always

How old are they, just out of curiosity?

So 13, 16, 17, 18.

Wow.

And I was saying they have accountability. So I'm the mother. If they forget something, I'm not going to run back up to the school, one because I can't. But then they don't forget the notebook the second time.

They don't forget the lunch the second time. And that's how I was raised, and I think it made me a stronger person. So, and it makes me feel better as well. But they do. And they go to the volunteer events. They get exposure to whether it's Special Olympics or the food bank. My children have all grown up doing all the great things that are happening around North Texas that for me to have found the time to organize wouldn't have happened.

But to say, hop in the car with me, we're going to go volunteer with the bank, and they love doing it.

I think that's great. And I had the benefit of growing up with a very dynamic mother who sat on multiple boards. You're on the board of the Dallas Museum of Art. You're a trustee. My mother was on the board of the Brooks Museum of Art in Memphis, Tennessee.

I subsequently served on the board of the Dixon Gallery and Gardens in Memphis. But my mother would take me when I was 14, 15, 16. I bartended at events at the museum. I swept and cleaned up. I hauled artwork around. And ultimately what came from that, aside from a work ethic, was an appreciation for art.

Absolutely.

They ultimately named the Docent Gallery, the docents who led the tours, in my mother's memory after her death. And then in turn, having watched a mother like you and the way you're engaging, it made me become civically involved. And then I took my children, I was the chair of the Make-A-Wish Foundation in Memphis and I took them to grant wishes, and so I think it's something that creates a cycle, and it's a virtuous cycle.

So I applaud you for that, and I bet your children are going to grow up and have a great appreciation for community involvement.

I just want to tack on to that, because it's a conversation I was having last night with Sarah Jackson and some of the Texas Lyceum people, is the fact that both of y'all have shared these organizations with your kids and whatnot.

Like, I love my family. I love my parents. I think I had a very great childhood, but they were never part of boards. They were never part of stuff like that. And it was such a foreign concept until like my mid 40s, right? And it was like I didn't even know organizations like Texas Lyceum or chambers or anything like that was a thing.

You know, in your peripheral you are aware that obviously there's nonprofits, there's charities, but that's what other people do. It's not what I can. And then it's like, oh yeah, by the way, I can be involved. So the fact that you're getting your children involved in that, I think is amazing, because it gives them insight and access to a world, like I said, that I didn't even know was a thing until I started doing the SMU stuff.

Right. And I'll be honest, I didn't either. Like I mentioned, first generation college. I had no idea. And it was Bank of America. Walter Elcock had the position before I did. He later went on to be the interim CEO of the Dallas Museum. And they would bring you to the museum and the United Way was there.

And this was part of being at Bank of America. And I fell in love with it. That's what we, the Bank of America, you get two hours a week to volunteer, and we don't just say that. We orchestrate over 300 events a year in North Texas and we all get up together, we leave, we go to the Special Olympics, and we love it, and it's why our folks stay.

I'm actually done with my term at the Dallas Museum. I've termed out of there, but I am a huge fan. One of my daughters is an artist and that's how I really bond with her, and I wouldn't have had the opportunity to found her love for the arts, or mine, without it being the bank. But it was the bank, and we see that as an important role we play.

We also do board training with my team in philanthropic. We train our employees how to be on a board, how to be good stewards. And so we see that every single day. And the beauty of it, and what you just said, is inevitably once or twice a year someone will come up to me and say, Jennifer, I just gave the backpack out at the mayor's fair, and you know what? I used to be on the other side of that line.

I hear those stories time and time again. And that's the beautiful thing at what we do, and I go back to capitalism. It's because we gave them that job at Bank of America. They came and worked their tail off, and now it's that flywheel that's going and they're giving back.

It's a virtuous cycle. I suspect you've retained your fluent Spanish speaking.

I can order cold beer and ask where the bathroom is very fluently. Beyond that, very limited.

I'd like to speak another language.

Well, yeah. Do you speak another language?

No, but I used to live in Dubai and Doha in a different life, and one of the things that you get hit with very quickly is everybody over there speaks three to six languages.

And as an American you're like,

I speak English, right?

And it's like, the clients, it's very important. So the other thing with our footprint and over 14,000 colleagues, we have almost every language ready. So it goes back to, sometimes people are walking in, maybe it is a language barrier, whether it's Vietnamese. We've got just so much of the North Texas growth that is coming internationally, and so that is one thing I think we accommodate nicely. And I do tend to see in person people are just more comfortable.

Going back to the philanthropy side, what are some of the biggest myths or questions that you get hit with that maybe frustrate you or challenge you, because you're like, how do you not know this?

I think it's, to your point, the tax. I think people think that's why people give, and it's certainly not.

I think the perception that it's easy, whether you're MacKenzie Scott or another billionaire, it is not easy. And you're saying no 90% of the time. Whether it's the bank foundation or the families I work with and serve, I think they see the photo, they see the check, and they think there's endless funds. You say no so much more.

And so I think that reality, and that it's just site visits and writing checks. There's a lot of diligence that goes into the work we do. There's a lot of complexity as a fiduciary overseeing the investments to make sure the return is there. It's a wonderful thing. It's so rewarding, but it's not easy.

Sort of like PE almost.

It can be. Yeah. And especially, and I would say going back to generational wealth transfer and women, the interest in not only making the donation and driving philanthropy that way, but being part of innovation is incredibly important. Nicole Small was at the event we had today for that reason.

More and more of our families want to make that donation to the nonprofit and that's great, but they may want to invest in a fund that's going to innovate and help solve the health issue. And I believe Dallas is the hub for that, whether you look at Pegasus Park. And then of course AI. I believe so many of the solutions are going to come right out of Dallas, Texas, and it's going to be a combination of the two.

So, measuring impact, wanting to directly invest in the solutions, important. More also, whether it's impact investing, which is a term used a number of different ways, but they also want the money to work in ways and in funds and in investments they believe in, and that's important in the next generation. So we have some portfolios that maybe have a religious tilt to them.

We can do one with the Catholic bishop screen. We can do one that looks at the makeup of boards with women and girls. And so it's a little more complex than some realize. But I think more fundamentally, it's not always easy for families also to agree on what their giving priorities are. And so having that dialogue is important.

Obviously, COVID wrecked a lot of nonprofits. Giving, I'm assuming, went way down. And I think through some of the research, at least what AI tells us, is the affluent are giving more, right? But now there's less givers. So how does that affect everything that y'all are doing?

We do see that in our study of philanthropy.

The good news is the giving went up, but to your point, it's that the affluent households are doing more. The beauty of the future is that volunteerism is the gateway to giving. So if we go back to what we talked about and what we do with our own Bank of America colleagues, we want to get people out into the organizations. We want to see them give.

Well, I'm bullish. I think the next generation, they've been on their phones, they've been on their devices. The more I see with the next generation, we serve, my own children, they want to get away from that. They want to get in there, get their hands dirty, help the client, and serve.

And if that keeps happening, we know the dollars will follow, because then they're going to give to drive greater impact. So we saw that, you see in different needs areas and things, but again, I'm bullish. I think it's going to rebound right back. I think the volunteerism did come back up, and that's the leading indicator.

So you're going to see those households giving as well.

When it comes to some of the nonprofits that you work with or whatnot, is there ever any that are incapable of turning it around? Like maybe they're in the doldrums. It's like, hey guys, just like capitalism, it's time to shut the doors. Or is everything worth saving?

It's a great question. And the Building Together Fund that Lyda Hill and Nicole Small helped start in Texas, I guess it was 2017, helped incentivize organizations to collaborate and to merge if it makes sense. So, especially in North Texas, and first we always advise our clients, you don't have to go create a new foundation. Maybe it's your family foundation, but don't create another literacy program.

Let's help you do the due diligence before you go put your name on another nonprofit and establish another one. There's likely one out there that's effective that you can contribute to. So we try to watch it on the front end before people just go create and establish another one. Then there's great collaborations like the one I just mentioned, which is important, and you're seeing more of that.

Also, grant makers, we encourage them to look for collaborations. But yes, you see inefficiencies. You see just cost overhead, and we need to see collaboration. So a perfect example right here in North Texas that we also discussed this morning was UT Southwestern and Children's coming together for the pediatric hospital. And we got pretty candid this morning.

It's not easy to do that. And of course they're two separate, very large, incredibly impactful organizations, but they needed to come together to build a hospital of that size or it wouldn't have happened. So I think you're going to see more of it. And yes, we advise at our level. I see fewer. Some are in the financial centers.

I'll see in the consumer channel just little small nonprofits here or there. And we do try to advise them and give them the tools they need. We do webinars and things that will help them when they're smaller and maybe don't warrant a full team around them. But we do need to see some consolidation. And you see that, you help merge across every industry.

I'm sure you've seen in not only nonprofits, but across any industry, it's healthy to do that at times.

At least from my point of view, not knowing the world and then trying to help people do that now, it's like, oh, you just give money. And then it's like, no, it's an actual business. It just has a different mission, right?

Right.

And if that mission doesn't have marketing, doesn't have administration, doesn't have the leadership, it's going to fail. And just because you throw more and more money at it, that doesn't

You're just prolonging the inevitable. The other example from this morning that plays right into that is a donor gave a nonprofit a gift specific to the technology. They saw the inefficiency of that organization. This was years ago, doing things by paper.

So they said, we're going to give you a gift, but we need you to tell us exactly what's going wrong. So it was also having a candid conversation to know what their gaps are, what their real needs are. Of course, everyone loves an unrestricted gift and you can go do that. But are you going to challenge them and ask them, what could you really do? How could you be more effective? In this particular case, it was an app that they created for the nonprofit and it saved them hours and hours of employee expense. So it's also

asking those questions.

Yeah, and I didn't even know that was a thing. There was another one of the SMU institutions. I was like, hey y'all, I can help you with this, that, and the other. Like, Ryan, we would love to, but our endowment is very cookie cutter specific on what we can spend our money on, and unfortunately, you're not in it.

I was like,

Right.

Yeah. I can only imagine the administrative burden of attending to however many billions of dollars that you guys manage. I ran a multi-family office, sovereign wealth management, and we had one fairly high-profile, publicly known high-profile person, right? They did not have a foundation, but the volume of mail and inbound requests for gifts, right, was overwhelming.

And if you are known as a foundation who's giving away money, I can only imagine the volume of inquiries that come in.

And that's actually what we do. If I can just go deeper for a minute, not everyone knows we do this, but we actually just invested another several million in our platform. We actually set up the website and the portal for those foundations that wish to have that, so that we can catch it on the front end.

You establish your giving priorities as well, make sure they're a valid nonprofit, and we can help weed out the ones that maybe don't fit if you're hunger and education. And then on the back end the family is still advising to the extent they would like to, or we can be a trustee. But you're right, and it's a lot of volume, and back in the day you just printed all those grant requests.

You're reading through them. And so the technology is exciting and we're on the front end of that, and it'll always be humans that want to do site visits and see the client and know you're impacting where you need to be impacting. But we can weed out a lot of the paperwork.

I thought about that, that would help. This reminds me a little bit of our podcast with Abe Minkara. Abe was Mark Cuban's chief investment officer. I don't know if you know Abe or not. And so, Cuban on Shark Tank, the volume of deals, not just the Shark Tank deals, I'm just talking about because of his profile.

Well, I think he said he'd looked at 10,000

I'm sure.

deals. Ultimately, everything we're talking about leads to donor fatigue, right?

You know, and because I was talking to somebody on campus a while back and his biggest frustration was, one, the amount of people that request, but two, the amount of people that request without even vetting to see what he supports.

And then also some of them with the hubris of the expectation of, of course you're going to donate, you know. And then it's interesting because if you really think about it, yes it's a nonprofit, yes and all the things we've been talking about, but if I give you a dollar and then you don't even acknowledge my dollar, am I ever going to give you a dollar again? So there's that pat on the back relationship aspect of it that I think certain nonprofits possibly take for granted until they realize we messed up.

That's a lot of the work we're doing in the consulting practice, is how to steward those relationships over time. And then to your point, for even the nonprofits seeking those donations, it's a lot of education there, because they're also wasting their time to go take a 30-minute meeting with someone that's never going to be aligned with their values.

And so, a lot of education, but you're right, and it can lead to fatigue on both sides of the equation. So it's just constant education, but that stewardship, that gratitude, so important. And it goes back to also the collaboration for the large major gifts. And even North Texas right now, there's a list of capital campaigns and it's a few pages long.

There's a lot, because it's an exciting time and that's wonderful. But I think Dallas and North Texas in particular do a nice job knowing that there's a group of funders that keep abreast of what's going on, so we're not coming to the same organizations, whether it's corporate or families.

But it's really important, and one mistake and one lack of gratitude or one lack of a thank you can ruin a relationship for decades. So it's important that it's done the right way.

I think to that point, everybody needs to remember that yes, we might be talking about institutions, yes, we might be talking about big whatevers, but ultimately it's just people, right?

So, like, if you mess up somebody's name. But aren't you supposed to know who I am? I mean, not in a ridiculous way, but like

Just doing your homework and preparing for the ask. And again,

if you give me a million dollars, I'm like, hey, Sarah. And you're like, my name's Jennifer. I'm like, my bad. Like, you can't even remember my name. I just wrote you a check, you know.

No, it's important. And then again, just making sure we're effective with the dollars we're giving. I like to say Dallas is at this incredible moment in time, and probably what I'm most excited about is the growth. But we're also at the moment in time where we've got to do it right. We can solve so many of the big systemic issues that we have with the capital we have in North Texas, but we've got to collaborate.

We've got to be effective. We've got to be smart. And I believe we're doing that.

So, with everything you're doing being so relationship driven, I'm assuming

Yes.

And because you're involved in so many organizations, do you have like an earpiece where somebody's like, this is Lane, this is Ryan,

to remember people's names? Or do you just, the night before, your assistant sends you a list of the people that you most likely interact with and here's their, kind of like, what is it with the Devil Wears Prada where somebody whispers in their ear?

Do not have an AirPod. That would be nice. It's funny.

I mention I'm born and raised here, and I do think just being from here is important, and there's so many people you meet, and it's 20 years later, and it is relational, everything we do. But that's also why I mentioned being in a financial center and the role I have is so important, to look at every client across the board, whether they're a business owner. And so I spend a lot of time in the names, and the team laughs, because I always say I want to go name by name. I don't want to hear what you're doing in the commercial bank, I don't want to hear

what you're doing in the investment bank or the financial center. I want to see the appointments. Who's coming in today? I want to see who you're doing there, because those dots connect. So I spend a lot of my day in meeting people, seeing people face to face. I'm very visual. So no, I wish I had something like that, or technology that would just make it easier, but I think it's important.

Also just getting to know who people are. I know your background and I won't forget everything I learned about you in Victoria. And so I think it's spending quality time digging in, understanding people, then you can remember them from their story, their background. And then again, in what I do, the team laughs, but I get very much in the weeds to understand, because I think we better serve people when we understand everything they're doing and can support them better.

Yeah. And I think a lot of people overcomplicate simplicity, things like, you know, trying to remember somebody's name or write them a follow-up letter or write them a letter at all. Thank you. Like the simple.

I thought I was the only person left writing.

I still write letters.

Yes. I love, my mother made me do that every time I got a gift, and I had to write it immediately.

Right. You don't get a day.

Oh, and my kids know that too. They can't have their birthday present until, they open it, but I'm like, this isn't leaving this room to your room until the thank you note is complete.

There you go.

So, but things like that.

But I do write personal notes now, and people are gobsmacked by that.

Yeah. Wait, you wrote me a letter.

It's also the joy of connecting people. You mentioned it. We're at this moment in time where anything and everything can be solved here. 90% of it is making sure that person's talking to that person. The capital is over here, the need's over here, the technology's over here.

So you remember things and can immediately connect people when you have your antenna up to hear those things. And I think there's a lot of us that do that in North Texas. The chamber's a great forum for that, the Citizens Council. And so I think it's also the joy of that. There's nothing that makes me more excited than, like, three years later you heard, okay, these two people did some incredible things together.

Yeah. And that's my big shift for post SMU, is I think I have that.

Right. Yeah.

But for better or worse, I've always been paid in the dopamine hit of it working. I'm like, oh, this is so great. I get to connect. Oh, y'all made $10 million. What? Here's my, no, nothing. Got it.

Right.

You know, I got nothing. And then the day, you can't eat the happiness, you know.

And it is that joy though, because I also get asked, and I do sleep at night. But I wake up excited. I really do. I don't just say that, but I think when you enjoy what you do, the energy is there, the enthusiasm, and those things just kind of naturally happen.

Well, my life point was, like, I do that all the time but I as of yet haven't had a vehicle to profit off it, and now I'm trying to, like, okay, how long

It'll happen. That's the other thing. Sometimes it seeds.

Honestly, and I'm getting older I guess, when I see that, but I'm like, that was 20 years ago.

Like, you just see things come through that you wouldn't have, especially here in Dallas.

And to that point, I think so many people don't understand the know, like and trust kind of framework or whatever. They're like, hey my name is Ryan. Oh Jennifer, give me your business. It's like, well, you don't even know me. We had no conversation.

So my whole goal the last two years of knowing Lane and Old Parkland is like, just get in here and get to know people and meet people, have this podcast. And it's like, oh, because people ask me all the time, what has this podcast done for you? How much money have you made? I'm like, but I've met a lot of cool people. I got a lot of good, yeah.

But it's that know, like and trust, because it goes from nothing, nothing, nothing to all of a sudden an overnight success, right? And nobody understands that. They want the quick hit.

I have a theory on that, from starting businesses and investing time and energy to grow them and planting seeds, is when I reach the point of maximum pessimism, right? That's when the dam breaks, right?

And I've had that happen multiple times where it's like, oh my god, I've done this, you know, and I can't believe that this hasn't. So, your time is coming.

As we get close to the end here, what's next for you?

Well, I am loving what I'm doing. I guess the incoming chair for the chamber. So next for me is chairing the chamber in 27 for regional.

So I'll be attached at the hip with Brad Chie. And Dale Petroskey was the CEO. He was phenomenal and I'm so grateful for his leadership, and he appointed me on his way out. So I'm grateful for him. But it's a very important job I think, just given the interest in so many companies wanting to relocate here.

So it'll be helping lead that work, and it'll also be a time we're in session. So I'll be in Austin, and I already mentioned the Texas Stock Exchange, but we'll make sure we're addressing the needs that we have as a business community to make sure we keep the pro business climate. And so I'm excited, but it runs the gamut.

We do a lot of education, workforce, and just the needs of the community here in North Texas, and we'll keep attracting companies. I'm a little competitive on that front. So I want them all to come here from across the country and the globe.

I have a client and I was doing a lot of research on the case for Dallas and all this stuff, and it's just, once you really dig into the numbers, it's crazy what North Texas is doing as far as attracting people and globally what's going on. And you look at just the macro environment and the onshoring here.

So it'll be that, and then as a mother, I'm just getting one kid, I've got an Aggie now. I've got one that'll be a senior next year. So just subtly getting those kids off into the right schools and right experience, and just a day at a time. I ran into Brad, I think last week there was a Fed event and I ran into him. So, you know, everywhere.

No slowing down.

No.

My college roommate was a full on engine, always running guy, and he had an expression that eating's cheating and sleeping's backing up.

I do sleep though. I get asked that. I have to get my sleep.

Eating's cheating and sleeping's backing up.

I love that.

He was on the go. Still is. And so I won't say any cheating, but sleeping may be backing up for you. You got a lot.

I don't think she does sleep.

No, I do. I have to get a good night's sleep every night.

And yeah, we have so many folks that work with the bank 40, 50 years. Our receptionist in Park Cities has worked, I think, 57. And so, if they'll keep me, I'll keep working. I love it and enjoy what I do.

So, we started this conversation talking about books, and we're surrounded by books. What book recommendations do you have? Whether it be for social, it could be for business, it could be for personal development, it could be faith, anything you want.

Yeah, and I read a lot of different ones. This Good to Great is a good one. I mentioned Jim Collins. I'm a big fan of what he's

He's come up a lot today.

He has. Yeah, because he's actually just incredible. And this next one, I'm not going to get ahead of that because

we had a previous guest talk about

it's very much worthwhile. So definitely check that out.

So Good They Can't Ignore You is good. I mean, there's so many. Atomic Habits is great. It's all the usual suspects. And then The Attributes is what I'm reading right now. You mentioned faith. So anything faith related I dig into. I think for me that's really important.

That's also how I look at mentors. I've always had kind of my faith-based, my business, folks I admire, and try to make sure that's balanced, whether it's what I'm reading or listening to. And of course, podcasts like this one. But I'm constantly, I'll hear a recommendation, and I fly a lot. So I'll try to get it immediately when I hear someone speak and then just take away pieces from that.

And it's a love language with the kids. So The Let Them Theory is one, some of them the Atomic Habits. Sometimes I'm reading a simple one like that on a plane so that I can give it to the kids, or something about someone else telling them something versus me, and then it gives us something to talk about.

You should put like a little highlighter asterisk, like this one, right?

Yeah.

Do you give actual books to your kids?

Usually with the girls I'm sending it, but he loves a good old-fashioned book. And then my husband Scott is an avid reader. He loves history books. Like, this, where we are today, this is incredible for him whenever we're over here. But he's big on LBJ, just a lot of the Doris Kearns Goodwin, a lot of those.

So he and my son go back and forth on a lot of that.

And I'll pick some of those up. A friend of mine, what he would do in his books was he would put a note on a random page like, come to me when you get to this page.

Oh, interesting.

And it would be like, here's 100 bucks.

Oh.

Oh, nice.

But then you got to make sure, because you don't want to put like a $100 bill in there because somebody could just kind of shake it out. You gotta write it in there, because they gotta, you know, find it.

It's important. That's fun. And we've tried to instill the love for it. My husband reads almost daily in front of the kids, and that's been a fun way just when they were young to come in. And so the good old-fashioned book really is important, and yeah, my son has it. We try to keep it going but it's a little harder these days.

Jennifer, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Do you have any final thoughts, walking away comments?

No, just appreciate the time today and what you're doing. These forums are a great way to bring folks together and you've done a nice job with that. So, no, just appreciate the time that you gave me today, and always happy to tell the Bank of America story. It's a fun one.

Appreciate you being here. Thanks for all you do for the community.

Thank you.

Best wishes as you transition into the leadership of the regional chamber.

Thank you.

And now I know who to ask for a recommendation letter for, you know, Leadership Dallas.

Yes. Let me know.

Exactly. It's a great program.

You know a guy, you know a gal.

Exactly.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you. Appreciate it.